textfiles-politics/pythonCode/personTestingOutput/hoover.xml

<xml><p>Article: 468 of sgi.talk.ratical
From: dave@ratmandu.esd.sgi.com (dave "who can do? ratmandu!" ratcliffe)
Subject: memorandum by J.E. <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> on 11/29/63 re: his meeting with <ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent>
Keywords: J.E. Hoover's <ent type='ORG'>FBI</ent> "spoon fed" <ent type='ORG'>the Warren Comission</ent> its data
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 19:29:31 GMT
Lines: 577</p>

<p> Summary: The second half of this post includes the copy of a memorandum
written by J. <ent type='PERSON'>Edgar Hoover</ent> immediately after he met w/<ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> in
the <ent type='ORG'>Oval Office</ent> seven days after President <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent> had been
murdered. The first half analyzes some of the more remarkable
details of this memo.</p>

<p> In 1963, <ent type='PERSON'>John</ent> <ent type='PERSON'>Edgar Hoover</ent> and <ent type='PERSON'><ent type='PERSON'>Lyndon</ent> Baines <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent></ent> knew each other
very well. They had lived across the street from each other for the
past 19 years. A professional bureaucrat of formidable talents, a 29-year-old <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> was appointed director of <ent type='ORG'>the Bureau</ent> of Investigation
in 1924 (<ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> added "Federal" to the title in 1935) by then Attorney
General <ent type='PERSON'>Harlan</ent> F. Stone to clean up a corrupt organization. During
<ent type='EVENT'>WWII</ent>, President <ent type='PERSON'>Roosevelt</ent> expanded the FBI's reach charging <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> with
investigations of <ent type='NORP'>Nazi</ent> and <ent type='NORP'>Communist</ent> activities in the U.S. The Cold
War gave <ent type='ORG'>the Bureau</ent> new power and <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> new glory. Hoover's dossiers
continued to grow as well as his command of <ent type='ORG'>Congress</ent>, his manipulation
and intimidation of the press, and his stature in the country. <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>
supplied Joe <ent type='PERSON'>McCarthy</ent> with a great deal of the ammunition which enabled
<ent type='PERSON'>McCarthy</ent> to sustain his "crusade" far longer than would have been
possible without Hoover's connivance.

When Robert <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent> became Attorney General in 1961, Hoover's
entrenched power-structures suffered a two-year, 10-month setback.
Long before 1961, <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> had created a direct channel of communication
with whoever was the current occupant of the <ent type='ORG'>Oval Office</ent>--bypassing the
actual chain of command which went from the President, through the
Attorney General, to Director of the <ent type='ORG'>FBI</ent>. </p>

<p> When <ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> assumed the Presidency, Hoover's direct link into the White
<ent type='ORG'>House</ent> was re-established. Johnson's official relationship with <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>
was enhanced by personal friendship as well. "As majority leader [in
the Senate], <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> already had <ent type='PERSON'>neen</ent> receiving a steady stream of
reports and dossiers from the Director . . . which he prized both as
a means of controlling difficult senators and as a gratification of
earthier instincts. For President <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent>, secrets were in themselves
perquisites of power . . . No chief executive praised the Director so
warmly. In an executive order exempting <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>, then sixty nine, from
compulsory retirement at seventy, <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> hailed him as 'a quiet,
humble and magnificent public servant . . . a hero to millions of
citizens and an anathema to all evil men. . . . The nation cannot
afford to lose you . . . No other <ent type='NORP'>American</ent>, now or in our past, has
served the cause of justice so faithfully and so well' ("<ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> Hails
<ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> Service, Waives Compulsory Retirement," <ent type='ORG'>NYT</ent>, May 9, 1964)."
-- from "The Age of Surveillance, The Aims and Methods of America's
Political Intelligence System," by <ent type='PERSON'>Frank Donner</ent>, (c) 1980, <ent type='ORG'>Knopf</ent>.</p>

<p> The following memorandum, written by <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> immediately after his
meeting with President <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent>, just seven days after the assassination
of President <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent>, is a remarkable document to say the least. There
is much information imparted in the memo regarding just how fluid and
unstable the cover story about who killed <ent type='PERSON'>JFK</ent> still was shaping up to be
at that time. By analyzing the discrepancies between the story <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>
briefed <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> about on November 29th, and what the final cover story
handed down by <ent type='ORG'>the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent></ent> would claim almost a year later,
we can better appreciate the degree to which the final "official report"
was sculpted to fit the constraints the <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent> was forced to adhere
to, regardless of the actual facts of the assassination.</p>

<p> This document is what is known in bureaucracy-speak as a "memo for the
record." It was a customary practice in the upper levels of the
bureaucracy in the days before electronic technology in <ent type='GPE'>Washington</ent>, D.C.
An official of high rank would usually return to her or his office
after such a meeting and dictate a memorandum of as many details of the
discussion as could be remembered. It was a way of recording one's own
professional dealings for future reference.</p>

<p> <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> starts out recounting that <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> brings up "the proposed group"
--what will become <ent type='ORG'>the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent></ent>--to study the report <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> is
trying to complete by the end of the same day. This has been initiated
by <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> to prevent an independent investigation by <ent type='ORG'>Congress</ent> of the
assassination (Reagan tried to do the same thing with the Tower
<ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent>). <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> would publically announce the creation of the
<ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent> later that same day. This was a critical move by
<ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent>: by appointing <ent type='ORG'>the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent></ent>, they effectively bottled
up Bobby <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent>, they bottled up the Senate, and they bottled up <ent type='GPE'>Texas</ent>.
The Tower <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent> didn't succeed in pre-empting an investigation by
<ent type='ORG'>Congress</ent>. In the end, <ent type='ORG'>the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent></ent> didn't either, but it did
keep the cork in place, preventing any other "official" examination, for
well over another decade.</p>

<p> It is interesting to note that of all the people listed at the bottom of
page one, retired General <ent type='PERSON'><ent type='ORG'>Lauris</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Norstad</ent></ent> (who had been head of the <ent type='ORG'>NATO</ent>
forces at SHAPE headquarters in Europe before his retirement) was the
only one who somehow succeeded in not serving on this Presidential
<ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent>. <ent type='PERSON'>Earl Warren</ent> did NOT want the job and had sent a memo ahead
to the <ent type='ORG'>Oval Office</ent>, before he answered LBJ's summons, stating he would
not participate in such a commission. But when push came to shove,
Johnson's formidable powers of persuasion turned Warren's 'no' into a
'yes.' Apparently, even such focused persuasion could not win Norstad's
agreement.</p>

<p> The six topic bullets at the bottom of page one are file listings. This
is important for anyone ever finding themself searching for documents
from the government through Freedom Of Information Act requests. This
type of listing is very useful beccause it lets one know that these
files exist, and that one might be able to find documents using this
method which one might not find (or even know about) any other way.</p>

<p> In the middle of the first paragraph on page 3, <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> relates how the
<ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> police didn't even make a move to stop Ruby. This is a pretty
heavy line by <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>. He implies the <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> cops must have somehow
been in collusion to silence <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> from living to stand trial. But
the implication is never fleshed out.</p>

<p> The second half of page three contains some of the most enlightening
statements of the whole memo. <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> tells <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> three shots were
fired. <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> asks "if any were fired at him." This question goes
a long way towards explaining the duress under which he served as
president. <ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> had heard bullets flying overhead--he had been that
close to the action. It was completely out of keeping with the
standard security procedures <ent type='ORG'>the Secret Service</ent> employed to have any
such parade appearance be attended by *both* the president and the
vice president. <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> heard the sounds of those guns very clearly
and the message they conveyed. He lived out the rest of his public
life always aware of their possible return. Not long before he died,
<ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> was interviewed by his friend and writer <ent type='PERSON'>Leo Janos</ent>. In the July,
1973 issue of "<ent type='ORG'>The Atlantic Monthly</ent>," Janos relates that <ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> told him:</p>

<p> 1. "that the assassination in <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> had been part of a conspiracy;
2. "I never believed that <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> acted alone . . .;
3. "we had been operating a damned <ent type='ORG'>Murder Inc</ent>. in <ent type='LOC'>the Carribean</ent>."</p>

<p> The presence of the vice president 2 cars behind the president in the
parade in <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> was a fundamental breach of the level of security
normally adhered to by <ent type='ORG'>the Secret Service</ent>. He took the experience back
with him to <ent type='ORG'>the White House</ent> and never forgot its meaning. He could
just as easily be snuffed out if he ever got out of line.</p>

<p> Then there follows a most curious and confused explanation by <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> of
the three shots fired: "the President was hit by the first and third
bullets and the second hit the Governor". Obviously <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> did not yet
know about the injury suffered by <ent type='PERSON'>James Tague</ent>. Tague's face was nicked
by a bullet fragment (or a fragment from the curb it hit) which missed
the limousene entirely and struck the curb at his feet, approximately
160 feet past the location of the president's car. This shot would end
up having to be one of "the three bullets fired" in the official story.</p>

<p> <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> then explicitly asks again "were they aimed at the President."
It would appear that <ent type='ORG'>LBJ</ent> needed repeated assurance by <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> that no one
had intended to shoot him. <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> then says a mouthful when he states
"I further advised him that we have also tested the fact you could fire
those three shots in three seconds." Apparently they did not yet
understand the implications of the <ent type='PERSON'>Zapruder</ent> film (or perhaps they were
confident they would be successful in never allowing the public to gain
any kind of access to it) and that it would be used as a clock.

Probably the most confused statements <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> recounts making are when
he describes for Johnson's benefit how Connally was hit: "I explained
that Connally turned to the President when the first shot was fired and
in that turning he got hit. The President then asked, if Connally had
not been in his seat, would the President have been hit by the second
shot. I said yes." All we can conclude about this muddled explanation
is that <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> was doing his best to explain things that he himself did
not understand or appreciate the complexity of.</p>

<p> <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> goes on to claim they found the gun and three shells on the fifth
floor. As you can see at this point, the number of variations on what
would become the official cover story are quite numerous. All of the
the facts of the assassination were working against them. They had
a story all worked out--3 seconds, 3 shots, fifth floor--and yet they
didn't know the facts.</p>

<p> Fletcher Prouty commented on this issue to me while we were discussing
this memo recently. "It reminds me so much of when the U-2 was lost and
the guys from <ent type='ORG'>NASA</ent> began to explain the U-2 flight until a couple of
days later when somebody told them, 'hey--it wasn't a <ent type='ORG'>NASA</ent> flight, we
can't do it that way.' And they began to change the cover story. But
then <ent type='ORG'>Kruschev</ent> said, 'Look, I've got the pilot, I know the story.' The
U-2 boys used to work across the hall from me--I'd see them coming and
going--oh they were shattered, because their cover story had been
totally wrong. So <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> is in the same kind of a box here--he is
trying to explain something that is nothing but a cover story, and
almost everytime he turns around, he finds there's another hole in it."</p>

<p> Near the end <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> extolls the virtues of his relationship to <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>
stating "I was more than head of the <ent type='ORG'>FBI</ent> - I was his brother and personal
friend; that he knew I did not want anything to happen to his family;
that he has more confidence in me than anybody in town." Pretty
laudatory words which substantiate the unusally close rapport these two
men had. Then <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> writes that <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> tells him "he would not embroil
me in a jurisdictional dispute. . . " This was the reference to Bobby
<ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent> and the pre-empting of any other legitimate, independent and
official investigation that would NOT be under the control of the <ent type='ORG'>FBI</ent>.
They would see to it that there would not be the kind of "rash of
investigations" <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> said at the beginning of this meeting "would be a
three-ring circus."

It is a known fact that in his later years Hoover's meglomania
approached epic proportions. He had various reasons why he did not want
any independent investigation which would *not* be dependent upon his
agency for the collection of data and use of his investigative staff.
<ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> was feeling quite vulnerable in these first days and was
very dependent on <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent> to tell him what to do concerning how to
consolidate his position and "reassure" the nation the assassination
was not political in any way, but rather the random occurence of a lone
sick mind. That was the only approach to take if they wanted to avoid
having to deal with why <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent> had been killed. By de-politicizing
the assassination, they were able to ignore the basic question of why.</p>

<p> This memorandum shows that the people in the federal government who were
responsible for creating <ent type='ORG'>the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent></ent>, and giving it only a
very selected and specific set of "data" by which they reached the
conclusions that became the official report, that they did not start
with the final cover story--they created it later because even <ent type='PERSON'>Hoover</ent>
and <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent> didn't know about it a week after the event. They were still
making things up a week later. It goes back to the old truth that it's a
big mistake to overestimate the abilities and knowledge of people--even
in high office. They can make pretty stupid mistakes and then when they
have to recant their stories, you are left with the kind of contrivance
we know as the <ent type='PERSON'>Warren</ent> Report.</p>

<p> --ratitor</p>

<p>--
daveus rattus </p>

<p> yer friendly neighborhood ratman</p>

<p> KOYAANISQATSI</p>

<p> ko.yan.nis.qatsi (from <ent type='EVENT'>the Hopi Language</ent>) n. 1. crazy life. 2. life
in turmoil. 3. life out of balance. 4. life disintegrating.
5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION</p>

<p> WASHINGTON __, D.C.</p>

<p> 1:39 p.m. November 29, 1963</p>

<p> MEMORANDUM FOR MR. TOLSON
MR. BELMONT
MR. MOHR
MR. CONRAD
MR. DE LOACH
MR. EVANS
MR. ROSEN
MR. SULLIVAN</p>

<p> The President called and asked if I am familiar with the proposed
group they are trying to get to study my report - two from the <ent type='ORG'>House</ent>,
two from the Senate, two from the courts, and a couple of outsiders. I
replied that I had not heard of that but had seen reports from the
Senate Investigating Committee.</p>

<p> The President stated he wanted to get by just with my file and my
report. I told him I thought it would be very bad to have a rash of
investigations. He then indicated the only way to stop it is to
appoint a high-level committee to evaluate my report and tell the <ent type='ORG'>House</ent>
and Senate not to go ahead with the investigation. I stated that would
be a three-ring circus.</p>

<p> The President then asked what I think about <ent type='PERSON'>Allen Dulles</ent>, and I
replied that he is a good man. He then asked about <ent type='PERSON'>John</ent> McCloy, and I
stated I am not as enthusiastic about McCloy, that he is a good man but
I am not so certain as to the matter of publicity he might want. The
President then mentioned General (<ent type='ORG'>Lauris</ent>) <ent type='ORG'>Norstad</ent>, and I said he is a
good man. He said in the <ent type='ORG'>House</ent> he might try (Hale) Boggs and (Gerald
R.) <ent type='ORG'>Ford</ent> and in the Senate (Richard B.) <ent type='PERSON'>Russell</ent> and (<ent type='PERSON'>John Sherman</ent>)
<ent type='PERSON'>Cooper</ent>. I asked him about <ent type='PERSON'>Cooper</ent> and he indicated <ent type='PERSON'>Cooper</ent> of <ent type='GPE'>Kentucky</ent>
whom he described as a judicial man, stating he would not want (Jacob
K.) Javits. I agreed on this point. He then reiterated <ent type='ORG'>Ford</ent> of
<ent type='GPE'>Michigan</ent>, and I indicated I know of him but do not know him and had
never seen him except on television the other day and that he handled
himself well on television. I indicated that I do know Boggs.</p>

<p> <ent type='PERSON'>Johnson</ent>, President <ent type='PERSON'>Lyndon</ent> B.
Assassination of President <ent type='PERSON'>John</ent> F. <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent>
Presidential <ent type='ORG'>Commission</ent> on Assassination
of President <ent type='PERSON'>John</ent> F. <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent>
Security - Presidential
Presidential Conferences
Presidential Travel Security</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> <ent type='ORG'>Memorandum</ent> for Messrs. Tolson, <ent type='GPE'>Belmont</ent>, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan</p>

<p> The President then mentioned that (Walter) Jenkins had told him that
I have designated Mr. DeLoach to work with them as he had on the <ent type='ORG'>Hill</ent>.
He indicated they appreciated that and just wanted to tell me they
consider Mr. DeLoach as high class as I do, and that they salute me for
knowing how to pick good men.</p>

<p> I advised the President that we hope to have the investigation
wrapped up today but probably won't have it before the first of the week
as an angle in <ent type='GPE'>Mexico</ent> is giving trouble - the matter of Oswald's getting
$6500 from the <ent type='NORP'>Cuban</ent> Embassy and coming back to this country with it;
that we are not able to prove that fact; that we have information he
was there on September 18 and we are able to prove he was in <ent type='GPE'>New Orleans</ent>
on that date; that a story came in changing the date to September 28
and he was in <ent type='GPE'>Mexico</ent> on the 28th. I related that the police have again
arrested <ent type='PERSON'>Duran</ent>, a member of the <ent type='NORP'>Cuban</ent> Embassy; that they will hold her
two or three days; will confront her with the original informant; and
will also try a lie detector test on her.</p>

<p> The President then inquired if I pay any attention to the lie
detector test. I answered that I would not pay 100% attention to them;
that it was only a psychological asset in investigation; that I would
not want to be a part of sending a man to the chair on a lie detector
test. I explained that we have used them in bank investigations and a
person will confess before the lie detector test is finished, more or
less fearful it will show him guilty. I said the lie detector test has
this psychological advantage. I further stated that it is a misnomer to
call it a lie detector since the evaluation of the chart made by the
machine is made by a human being and any human being is apt to make the
wrong interpretation.</p>

<p> I stated, if <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> had lived and had take a lie detector test, this
with the evidence we have would have added that much strength to the
case; that these is no question he is the man.</p>

<p> I also told him that <ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent> down there has offered to take a lie
detector test but his lawyer must be consulted first; that I doubt the
lawyer will allow him to do so; that he has a <ent type='LOC'>West Coast</ent> lawyer
somewhat like the <ent type='PERSON'>Edward Bennett Williams</ent> type and almost as much of a
shyster.</p>

<p> The President asked if we have any relationship between the two
(<ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> and <ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent>) as yet. I replied that at the present time we have</p>

<p> - 2 -</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> <ent type='ORG'>Memorandum</ent> for Messrs. Tolson, <ent type='GPE'>Belmont</ent>, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan</p>

<p> not; that there was a story that the fellow had been in Rubenstein's
nightclub but it has not been confirmed. I told the President that
<ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent> is a very seedy character, had a bad record - street brawls,
fights, etc.; that in <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent>, if a fellow came into his nightclub and
could not pay his bill completely, <ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent> would beat him up and
throw him out; that he did not drink or smoke; that he was an
egomaniac; that he likes to be in the limelight; knew all of the
police officers in the white light district; let them come in and get
food and liquor, etc.; and that is how I think he got into police
headquarters. I said if they ever made any move, the pictures did not
show it even when they saw him approach and he got right up to <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent>
and pressed the pistol against Oswald's stomach; that neither officer
on either side made any effort to grab <ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent> - not until after the
pistol was fired. I said, secondly, the chief of police admits he moved
<ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> in the morning as a convenience and at the request of motion
picture people who wanted daylight. I said insofar as tying <ent type='PERSON'>Rubenstein</ent>
and <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> together, we have not yet done so; that there are a number
of stories which tied <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> to <ent type='ORG'>the Civil Liberties Union</ent> in <ent type='GPE'>New York</ent> in
which he applied for membership and to the Fair Play for <ent type='ORG'>Cuba Committee</ent>
which is pro-<ent type='PERSON'>Castro</ent>, directed by communists, and financed to some extent
by the <ent type='PERSON'>Castro</ent> Government.</p>

<p> The President asked how many shots were fired, and I told him three.
He then asked if any were fired at him. I said no, that three shots
were fired at the President and we have them. I stated that our
ballistic experts were able to prove the shots were fired by this gun;
that the President was hit by the first and third bullets and the second
hit the Governor; that there were three shots; that one complete
bullet rolled out of the President's head; that it tore a large part of
the President's head off; that in trying to massage his heart on the
way into the hospital they loosened the bullet which fell on the
stretcher and we have that.</p>

<p> He then asked were they aimed at the President. I replied they were
aimed at the President, no question about that.</p>

<p> I further advised him that we have also tested the fact you could
fire those three shots in three seconds. I explained that there is a
story out that there must have been more than one man to fire several
shots but we have proven it could be done by one man.</p>

<p> The President then asked how it happened that Connally was hit. I
explained that Connally turned to the President when the first shot was
fired and in that turning he got hit. The President then asked, if
Connally had not been in his seat, would the President have been hit by
the second shot. I said yes.</p>

<p> - 3 -</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> <ent type='ORG'>Memorandum</ent> for Messrs. Tolson, <ent type='GPE'>Belmont</ent>, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan</p>

<p> I related that on the fifth floor of the building where we found the
gun and the wrapping paper we found three empty shells that had been
fired and one that had not been fired. that he had four but didn't fire
the fourth; then threw the gun aside; went down the steps; was seen
by a police officer; the manager told the officer that <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> was all
right, worked there; they let him go; he got on a bus; went to his
home and got a jacket; then came back downtown, walking; the police
officer who was killed stopped him, not knowing who he was; and he
fired and killed the police officer.</p>

<p> The President asked if we can prove that and I answered yes.</p>

<p> I further related that <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> then walked another two blocks; went
to the theater; the woman selling tickets was so suspicious - said he
was carrying a gun when he went into the theater - that she notified the
police; the police and our man went in and located <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent>. I told him
they had quite a struggle with <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> but that he was subdued and shown
out and taken to police headquarters.</p>

<p> I advised the President that apparently <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> had come down the
steps from the fifth floor; that apparently the elevator was not used.</p>

<p> The President then indicated our conclusions are: (1) he is the one
who did it; (2) after the President was hit, Governor Connally was hit;
(3) the President would have been hit three times except for the fact
that Governor Connally turned after the first shot and was hit by the
second; (4) whether he was connected with the <ent type='NORP'>Cuban</ent> operation with
money we are trying to nail down. I told him that is what we are trying
to nail down; that we have copies of the correspondence; that none of
the letters dealt with any indication of violence or assassination;
that they were dealing with a visa to go back to <ent type='GPE'>Russia</ent>.</p>

<p> I advised the President that his wife had been very hostile, would
not cooperate and speaks only <ent type='GPE'>Russia</ent>n; that yesterday she said , if we
could give assurance she would be allowed to remain in the country, she
would cooperate; and that I told our agents to give that assurance and
sent a <ent type='GPE'>Russia</ent>n-speaking agent to <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> last night to interview her. I
said I do not know whether or not she has any information but we would
learn what we could.</p>

<p> The President asked how <ent type='PERSON'>Oswald</ent> had access to the fifth floor of the
building. I replied that he had access to all floors. The President
asked where was his office and I stated he did not have any particular
place; that he</p>

<p> - 4 -</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> <ent type='ORG'>Memorandum</ent> for Messrs. Tolson, <ent type='GPE'>Belmont</ent>, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan</p>

<p> was not situated in any particular place; that he was just a general
packer of requisitions that came in for books from <ent type='GPE'>Dallas</ent> schools; that
he would have had proper access to the fifth and sixth floors whereas
usually the employees were down on lower floors. The President then
inquired if anybody saw him on the fifth floor, and I stated he was seen
by one of the workmen before the assassination.</p>

<p> The President then asked if we got a picture taken of him shooting
the gun and I said no. He asked what was the picture sold for $25000,
and I advised him this was a picture of the parade showing Mrs. <ent type='PERSON'>Kennedy</ent>
crawling out of the back seat; that there was no <ent type='ORG'>Secret Service</ent> Agent
on the back of the car; that in the past they have added steps on the
back of the car and usually had an agent on either side standing on the
bumper; that I did not know why this was not done - that the President
may have requested it; that the bubble top was not up but I understand
the bubble top was not worth anything because it was made entirely of
plastic; that I had learned much to my surprise that <ent type='ORG'>the Secret Service</ent>
does not have any armored cars.</p>

<p> The President asked if I have a bulletproof car and I told him I
most certainly have. I told him we use it here for my own use and,
whenever we have any raids, we make use of the bulletproof car on them.
I explained that it is a limousine which has been armorplated and that
it looks exactly like any other car. I stated I think the President
ought to have a bulletproof car; that from all I understand the Secret
Service has had two cars with metal plates underneath the car to take
care of hand grenades or bombs thrown out on the street. I said this is
European; that there have been several such attempts on DeGaulle's
life; but they do not do that in this country; that all assassinations
have been with guns; and for that reason I think very definitely the
President ought to always ride in a bulletproof car; that it certainly
would prevent anything like this ever happening again; but that I do
not mean a sniper could not snipe him from a window if he were exposed.</p>

<p> The President asked if I meant on his ranch he should be in a
bulletproof car. I said I would think so; that the little car we rode
around in when I was at the ranch should be bulletproofed; that it
ought to be done very quietly. I told him we have four bulletproof cars
in <ent type='ORG'>the Bureau</ent>: one on the <ent type='LOC'>West Coast</ent>, one in <ent type='GPE'>New York</ent> and two here. I
said this could be done quietly without publicity and without pictures
taken of it if handled properly and I think he should have one on his
ranch.</p>

<p> - 5 -</p>

<div>.</div>

<p> <ent type='ORG'>Memorandum</ent> for Messrs. Tolson, <ent type='GPE'>Belmont</ent>, Mohr, November 29, 1963
Conrad, DeLoach, Evans, Rosen, Sullivan</p>

<p> The President then asked if I think all the entrances should be
guarded. I replied by all means, that he had almost to be in the
capacity of a so-called prisoner because without that security anything
could be done. I told him lots of phone calls had been received over
the last four or five days about threats on his life; that I talked to
the Attorney General about the funeral procession from <ent type='ORG'>the White House</ent>
to the <ent type='PERSON'>Cathedral</ent>; that I was opposed to it. The President remarked
that <ent type='ORG'>the Secret Service</ent> told them not to but the family wanted to do it.
I stated that was what the Attorney General told me but I was very much
opposed to it. I further related that I saw the procession from the
Capitol to <ent type='ORG'>the White House</ent> on <ent type='GPE'>Pennsylvania</ent> and, while they had police
standing on the curbs, when the parade came, the police turned around
and looked at the parade.</p>

<p> The President then stated he is going to take every precaution he
can; that he wants to talk to me; and asked if I would put down my
thoughts. He stated I was more than head of the <ent type='ORG'>FBI</ent> - I was his brother
and personal friend; that he knew I did not want anything to happen to
his family; that he has more confidence in me than anybody in town;
that he would not embroil me in a jurisdictional dispute; but that he
did want to have my thoughts on the matter to advocate as his own
opinion.</p>

<p> I stated I would be glad to do this for him and that I would do
anything I can. The President expressed his appreciation.</p>

<p> Very truly yours,</p>

<p> [signed J. E. H.]</p>

<p> <ent type='PERSON'>John</ent> <ent type='PERSON'>Edgar Hoover</ent>
Director</p>

<p> - 6 -</p>

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