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+---
+layout: doc
+title: Removing TemplateVM Packages
+permalink: /doc/removing-templatevm-packages/
+---
+
+# Removing TemplateVM Packages
+When removing any packages from a default TemplateVM, be sure to check what's being removed by `apt autoremove` or `dnf`. 
+When removing certain packages, for instance Thunderbird, `apt` and `dnf` will attempt to remove many packages required by qubes for the template to function correctly under qubes.
+
+As an example from a terminal in a TemplateVM:
+```shell_session
+$ sudo apt remove thunderbird
+Reading package lists... Done
+Building dependency tree       
+Reading state information... Done
+The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
+  debugedit libjs-sphinxdoc libjs-underscore librpm3 librpmbuild3 librpmio3
+  librpmsign3 libsqlite0 linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64
+  linux-headers-4.9.0-6-common linux-image-4.9.0-6-amd64 python-backports-abc
+  python-cffi-backend python-concurrent.futures python-croniter
+  python-cryptography python-dateutil python-enum34 python-idna
+  python-iniparse python-ipaddress python-jinja2 python-libxml2 python-lzma
+  python-markupsafe python-msgpack python-openssl python-pyasn1 python-pycurl
+  python-requests python-rpm python-singledispatch python-six python-sqlite
+  python-sqlitecachec python-tornado python-tz python-urlgrabber
+  python-urllib3 python-xpyb python-yaml qubes-core-agent-dom0-updates
+  qubes-core-agent-passwordless-root qubes-gpg-split qubes-img-converter
+  qubes-input-proxy-sender qubes-mgmt-salt-vm-connector qubes-pdf-converter
+  qubes-usb-proxy rpm rpm-common rpm2cpio salt-common salt-ssh usbutils yum
+  yum-utils
+Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
+The following packages will be REMOVED:
+  icedove lightning qubes-thunderbird qubes-vm-recommended thunderbird
+0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 5 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
+After this operation, 151 MB disk space will be freed.
+Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
+```
+
+Note all of the qubes packages are tracked as dependencies that will no longer be required. `apt remove` will only remove the packages listed, which is ok. 
+If, however you also run `apt autoremove` the other qubes packages necessary for TemplateVMs will be removed.
+
+If you'd still like to remove one of these applications without breaking your TemplateVM you have a couple different options. 
+
+## Removing Only Packages Not Needed for a Qubes TemplateVM
+
+### Debian
+ 1. In your TemplateVM terminal run:
+ ```shell_session $ apt remove package-name```
+ Note the packages "no longer required"
+ 2. If the list of "no longer required" packages includes anything beginning with `qubes-` or `salt-` make a note to yourself to **never** run `$ sudo apt autoremove` on this TemplateVM
+
+**Recommended but optional:** Use `apt-mark` to make `apt autoremove` safe again. 
+```shell_session
+$ sudo apt mark-manual package-name package-name
+```
+
+Replace package-names with actual `qubes-*` and `salt-*` packages you'd like to retain. 
+
+For example, still in your TemplateVM terminal: 
+```shell_session
+$ sudo apt-mark manual qubes-core-agent-dom0-updates qubes-core-agent-passwordless-root qubes-gpg-split qubes-img-converter qubes-input-proxy-sender qubes-mgmt-salt-vm-connector qubes-pdf-converter salt-common salt-ssh qubes-usb-proxy
+```
+
+`$ apt autoremove` should now be safe to use.
+
+### Fedora
+In your TemplateVM terminal, run:
+```shell_session
+$ dnf remove --noautoremove package-name
+```
+
+ 
+## Recovering A TemplateVM which you've already removed needed qubes-* packages
+If you've already removed packages, run `apt autoremove` and restarted your VM you've lost passwordless sudo access. 
+You can login as root, open a terminal in dom0 and run: 
+```shell_session
+$ qvm-run -u root vmname xterm
+```
+This will open an xterm terminal in the TemplateVM named `vmname`
+
+Once you're logged in as root, reinstall these packages & their dependencies: 
+
+### Debian
+```shell_session
+$ sudo apt install qubes-core-agent-dom0-updates qubes-core-agent-passwordless-root qubes-gpg-split qubes-img-converter qubes-input-proxy-sender qubes-mgmt-salt-vm-connector qubes-pdf-converter salt-common salt-ssh
+```
+
+### Fedora
+Similar to Debian for example (package names may vary):
+```shell_session
+$ sudo dnf install qubes-core-agent-dom0-updates qubes-core-agent-passwordless-root qubes-gpg-split qubes-img-converter qubes-input-proxy-sender qubes-mgmt-salt-vm-connector qubes-pdf-converter salt-common salt-ssh
+```
diff --git a/doc.md b/doc.md
index 0520b378..19df5a5a 100644
--- a/doc.md
+++ b/doc.md
@@ -158,6 +158,7 @@ Customization Guides
  * [Language Localization](/doc/language-localization/)
  * [Dark Theme in Dom0 and DomU](/doc/dark-theme/)
  * [How to make any file in a TemplateBasedVM persistent using bind-dirs](/doc/bind-dirs/)
+ * [Safely Removing TemplateVM Packages (Example: Thunderbird)](/doc/removing-templatevm-packages/)
 
 
 Troubleshooting